The Trekker, 1995

(typed up from reprint in Star Trek Action Group newsletters #122-124)

Tim Russ

Interview by Kathy Krantz

When you think of Tim Russ, you probably think ‘Vulcan’; that Voyager Vulcan who is logical and tremendously un-feeling. Yet usually a surprise twist happens and this special Vulcan’s positive view of a solution to a problem comes out. You might feel the same as ‘Bones’, the original series Doctor McCoy, and wish out loud like he, “Those green-blooded, pointy-eared Vulcans should be more emotional, compassionate … more human!”

Tim studied the role of Vulcan by “Not studying, but watching and absorbing the original series as an original fan.” In a way, Tim’s personality is like a Vulcan’s; it’s been said by many on the set at Paramount. But, unlike Mr. Spock, who would only choose the most logical, absolute solution, Tuvok (Tim) can and usually does decide if and when he will follow the logic. He makes his own decisions, ones that he can live with. Ironically, even though Mr. Spock was half-Human, half-Vulcan he would not sway to contemplate his own choice as much as the full-blooded Vulcan Tuvok.

Tim Russ has many talents, not only raising his one eyebrow at that precarious dilemma; he’s an active musician, writer and budding film maker. Not to mention a great actor. His dreams are to create meaningful feature films. This thought is brewing in Tim’s mind at this very moment.

With his father being in the military, Tim’s family was always on the move. This made Tim very flexible in nature, organized and able to adjust what he decides to focus on just the way a Vulcan would. Besides being an impressive commanding officer of Voyager, he is also a perfect example.

Kathy: I heard you did a coffee house gig the other night. Could you tell me about that?

Tim: Yes, it was in a place called Common Ground in Northridge, California. It’s a small place; my manager owns it. I did a trio gig, just a couple of hours.

Kathy: That’s beautiful. You play the guitar, right?

Tim: Yes, the guitar and bass, back and forth, and do the vocals.

Kathy: You sing then? Is there any chance you’ll be making an album like Old Yellow Eyes? Data (Brent Spiner) made one and Uhura (Nichelle Nichols) made one.

Tim: Oh really? And Uhura made one too?

Kathy: Sure. You should get it, it’s a gorgeous tape.

Tim: She has a great voice.

Kathy: It’s very hypnotizing.

Tim: I don’t know if I’ll make an album or not.

Kathy: Maybe in the future?

Tim: Possibly. What it would come down to would be a really unique arrangement of songs covered before or original tunes written by other people I really like. And they would have to be produced and arranged properly; I would be there to participate in them, but they would have to be something I really like. And somebody would have to take care of all the technical aspects of it. It would have to be done properly, something that would match my voice, match whatever is going on. Then I don’t know if I will have much of a hand in writing the material because I don’t consider myself a songwriter. I could write something, I could put together a song tomorrow on demand, for something. Right now, I’m not writing that much music at all. Just basically playing. I like to play, I like to perform.

Kathy: That’s good for you anyway. It’s nice after a hard day’s work at the studio if you go and relax and you can play.

Tim: It’s really wonderful. It’s really easier if you could just show up with the guitar and plug it in and play, as opposed to having to arrange all the equipment and play roaddie and engineer and everyone else. It’s just that kind of gig. Once you start playing, it’s much nicer and when it goes smoothly, it’s really nice.

Kathy: I was sitting down and getting ready to think up a pitch for Voyager. And I was thinking of your character. And while I was thinking of you in that story, the call came in to me about this interview. It was very odd timing. Isn’t that funny? A 3000-mile mind-meld.

Tim: A mind-meld. There you go.

Kathy: This weekend I saw Garrett Wang at the convention at Valley Forge, Pennsylvania. He mentioned you to the crowd. He said he really looks forward to the rare time a smile beams across your face while a blooper happens on the set (Laughter).

Tim: Yeah, Garrett always accuses me of being a Vulcan when I wasn’t a Vulcan, as it were. In real. Time. (Laughter). Possibly, my demeanor on occasion may be somewhat stoic, from working. It depends on the day, the time of day, and if I’m dead tired or not; if I want to get through the scene and go home. But there are many other times when I’m usually having a hell of a lot of fun with the other cast members. Shooting it. With Garrett, he’s like bouncing off the wall, anyway.

Kathy: Yes, he’s got a lot of energy, high-strung. He was jumping all around the stage. Gave a terrific presentation to the fans.

Tim: He’s very gregarious, and I am not that way. So, I have a lot of energy but it’s all directed in certain places. I can be very excited about a particular cause. I can be excited and have a great deal of fun doing certain things. I have a weakness for jet skiing and computer flight simulating. I’m like a kid, going through that roller coaster. There are many things I can really get excited about. But when I go to work, I usually stay focused on what I’m doing.

Kathy: Garrett said they call you ‘the zipper man’ and ’robe man’ on the set.

Tim: (Laughter).

Kathy: Funny thing is, he said they have no nick-name for him.

Tim: I don’t think he has a nick-name yet. I’m sure he’ll get one based on his actions.

Kathy: He likes you a lot; he was talking about you.

Tim: Yes, to some degree I inadvertently act as a mentor for him. I gave him some advice on some things just starting out there. This was his first serious project; this is his first project that big. I mean, he hit very early on.

Kathy: And it’s a tremendous amount of things, with the conventions.

Tim: Sure, all the trappings of a series. It’s not like hitting a series that just stays on for a month or two, or however long it might stay on. It’s a whole thing. Most of us are coming into the show having already done that routine, been on series, been on major productions and been involved in this business making a living at it for several years. As opposed to Garrett who’s just off his start. Even Jennifer (Kes) I think may have more experience than he does. I’m not sure. But those two are the youngest and they basically don’t have the years behind it. So there’s a great deal of adjusting going on.

Kathy: Yeah, I was thinking about that too. You’re a terrific role model.

Tim: In terms of the character?

Kathy: Yes, but also for African-Americans.

Tim: Absolutely!

Kathy: I think so too.

Tim: No question about it. It’s a very non-traditional role. Science fiction offers the opportunity for that. And just the aspect of the character, and just in terms of the discipline of the character, what motivates him, what gives him cause of action, is a big plus; the essence of control this character is.

Kathy: Yes, you have to have a lot of control, keep your smile down.

Tim: It’s over the top if you compare it to the African-American community as a whole. It’s definitely at the opposite side of the spectrum because African-Americans in general tend to be very or rather gregarious and free spirited. That’s just the way the ancestry has been: the main thing that’s been a problem with the African-American community trying to assimilate into Western culture. Western culture is very much based on time. Very strict. Very work ethic, very European work ethic, very proper, very this, very that. It’s got to be like this, it’s got to be like that.

Kathy: And the spirituality is different too.

Tim: And the spirituality is much different. There’s an old African saying that one of the tribes says about time: “The event begins when you get there.” See what I’m saying? As opposed to four o’clock. In Western culture the event begins at four o’clock.

Kathy: Yes, I love those African saying.

Tim: But the event begins when you get there. It begins for you. That’s the difference between the two philosophies. The life styles are also reflective of that and I think that goes particularly for the inner city black culture, as opposed to those of us who, myself included, who were not raised in that environment, and basically have adapted more to the Western culture.

Kathy: You family was in the military. You had to travel around. That made you more flexible too.

Tim: Yeah, you have to be adaptable, you have to be flexible. The essence of the military life was basically spontaneity and insecurity to some degree. Unpredictability. Having to make very close friends and having to lose them. All of which is parallel to the kind of work we do.

Kathy: That’s something. You do have to shoot all over the place, pick up and go at any time.

Tim: Pick up and go somewhere the last minute. Not knowing you’re going to be here or there next week. Or working very closely with a cast member for three months on a show and all of a sudden it’s over with.

Kathy: About the two different arenas, between the movies and the TV series, that’s the biggest difference; you see the same people, the regular cast each week. Do you like that?

Tim: I like it a great deal. What this is now, as far as the actual working environment, is a sense of home. You only have to drive to one place, the same place every day. And get up and go and meet a lot of familiar faces. In actuality I don’t see everybody everyday. I only see a portion of the cast every day.

Kathy: Right, they shoot at different times. Armin (Quark) and Mrs. Roddenberry and Q were on all three series. I noticed on your bio you were on all three too. And you were in Generations. Do you think you have a different perspective than newcomers?

Tim: Absolutely! I was the only one on the cast basically who has the background experience from every show, before coming in. The only other people with that much of experience involved with the show are some of the writers and some of the crew members that I work with, and avid fans. I know more about the show than the producers do. It’s the truth. And I know more about the show than some of the writers do.

Kathy: Because you’re there and you observe everything.

Tim: I know the show and I was a fan of the original series. Having had that, I know Spock’s character very well.

Kathy: I heard you studied him a lot.

Tim: It is an involuntary study, it was a process of osmosis from having watched the show for a number of years. You learn by taking it in. And then it’s there.

Kathy: Yeah, your eyebrow goes up at the right time. (Laughter).

Tim: Right (Laughter). And it gives me an advantage. I have no choice when playing an autobiographical character, although it’s biographical based on a portrayal in a fictional series. But I have to adhere to that. I have to stay within the parameters of his character because of the fact it’s already been established. And so firmly established.

Kathy: Yes, but they gave you some leeway there at the last episode. That was very interesting.

Tim: Yeah, what we did was we pushed the envelope of this relationship I have with the Captain.

Kathy: I like that. Do you think that will go somewhere? I remember Captain Picard was attracted to the doctor (Gates McFadden). Do you think there might be something there?

Tim: No I don’t. I think there’s always going to be a professional relationship and a friendship. We pushed the envelope on the friendship aspect of it, the tolerance envelope of how much she would tolerate, what she would stand for. And she could have said that perhaps in private “I appreciate what you tried to do, but I have to maintain discipline on the ship, I have to maintain the standards of everybody else involved.” And she’s right.

Kathy: And she needs you too.

Tim: Yeah, and plus she needs him as well to side with her on these things, give her feedback, but to go along with her decisions. We really had to work on that, and I think it still could have been worked even more before it was shot. There’s such little time. But I wanted to tailor it to really work with the writers a little bit more. As it was I did, I changed a lot of things in that script.

Part II (July-August 1995)

In part one of this interview, Tim Russ discussed his musical talents and spirituality. We saw the human side, as well as his Vulcan self, Tuvok. In this second part we explore Tim’s film-making aspirations, and directing and producing possibilities. He tells of in-progress projects and those he plans for his future. Tim likes to work with others in screenwriting, production, and acting.

Most Star Trek fans bring up the Pon Farr question. That’s the ancient Vulcan tradition where male Vulcans have to mate every seven years, or they will have health and mental problems. We discuss this at length, with some new insights into that tradition.

In the final part of this interview, Tim will discuss his thoughts and feelings about his pure Vulcan character, Tuvok, on Star Trek: Voyager. He talks of UFOs and the evolution of mankind. Tim looks at a topic with great intensity and from all angels. It was exciting to talk to someone about UFOs who has such though-out answers. When you see Tim playing Tuvok, you miss seeing Tim’s real personality on the screen because he has to hold back his excitement of the UFO topic, and the enthusiastic flair that pours out when he discusses the very essence of life and space travel.

Kathy: You write too, don’t you?

Tim: Yes.

Kathy: That we have in common; we both started out as musicians and went into screenwriting. It’s just all creative stuff.

Tim: Right. Most of my writing has been collaborative. I like to work with other people. I’m not a solitary writer. I don’t think I ever would be. I just enjoy the process.

Kathy: What issues do you like to come out in your writing? With me, it’s environmental. I like dolphins.

Tim: It will tend to be dramas and twist stories. As far as the subject matter, I tend to like from science fiction to some comedy, satire. I really enjoy a great deal putting together satires. There’s a lot of things I really like about that.

Kathy: You really like science fiction?

Tim: Oh, I’ve always liked science fiction. I’ve always enjoyed it. I don’t know if and when I’ll be able to write and develop a project myself.

Kathy: Like a series?

Tim: Yes, or even a feature. I would like to. If I do that I would probably like to collaborate with someone else. What I hope to do, I have an associate of mine out here that I’ve gone to school with, college with. He’s done smaller projects. We’re trying to get a feature off the ground now which would be based on his experiences, or a story about himself, what he’s gone through.

Kathy: Can you give us a glimpse of that?

Tim: Yes, the story’s called East of Hope Street. It’s an inner-city drama that evolves around young kids who grow up in group homes, residential treatment centers. Kids that basically don’t have families. How they’re sort of lost in the system, how they have to survive in the system.

Kathy: Street-smart.

Tim: Street-smart, very. And subject to all kinds of unpleasantness. Basically, we follow the path of one particular child and how she goes through this whole thing and comes out ahead.

Kathy: Sounds terrific!

Tim: We also deal with the issue of immigration to some degree. So, we’ve got a couple of issues that we deal with in this story. Basically, it would be categorized as an inner-city drama. And a reasonably low budget film, we could do very cheaply. It’s a person story. Of course, it’s about overcoming odds and obstacles.

Kathy: That makes for a good story.

Tim: Very much so! And it’s all based on true events that happened. Every aspect of the story is about things that have happened to people. My associate worked as a volunteer counselor in some of these places.

Kathy: That works, when you have true-to-life episode.

Tim: Oh, so much more. And it’s simple, not complicated. We have two others on the drawing board that are much more in the commercial main stream. One is a satire and one is a thriller. If we get this thing off the ground then we’re going to look at developing some more of our own things or start soliciting stuff from other writers. Other ideas, because an idea is an idea. Doesn’t matter where it comes from, as long as it’s good.

Kathy: Exactly. You might want to direct and produce it?

Tim: I would definitely be producing.

Kathy: Acting in it too?

Tim: And possibly acting. It depends on the roles. And down the line, directing, yes. I would prefer to do that.

Kathy: I’m sure you could handle it. You’ve done so much in movies and series.

Tim: Oh, yeah. I’ve got enough experience now to be able to direct something I felt close to, that I felt I really wanted to do. I think the best directors are ones in which their heart is really in the project. You really want to tell a story, and you feel a story. It’s much easier to direct something like that.

Kathy: I’ve been interviewing many of the Star Trek crew and several have directed after a couple of years. They ask you if you want to direct, then they start teaching you. Rene Auberjonois (Odo) was just telling me he was learning how to direct, and he was dreaming about directing so much because they were teaching him how to do it. They’ll probably ask you, because you like to write scripts.

Tim: Interesting. I would consider that, just as a learning opportunity primarily. Because you’re working for someone else in that capacity, and expected to deliver this project at a certain time, under a great deal of pressure. I don’t think working with the other members of the cast would be any kind of problem. Plus all the help you would get, which would be firsthand help. The first AD (Assistant Director), basically takes you b the hand and leads you through it. The Director of Photography would also be taking you by the hand, the producer as well. Step by step, phase by phase.

Kathy: That would be fun for you.

Tim: It would be interesting, but I’ll tell you, it would rack my nerves because I’ll still be on the show. It’s probably an unwarranted fear of failing. I don’t mind failing in front of people I won’t see again for a long period of time (laughter), but if you have to stay there and will be reminded this might not have come off as well as you wanted it to come off…

Kathy: (Laughter). That’s because you know Star Trek so well, you have these high expectations of it.

Tim: If you direct your own thing, you put it out there and mess it up, it’s yours. It doesn’t matter if you have it right or wrong, it’s yours. But, if I work in Star Trek it’s going to be for someone else. I want someone else to be pleased with it as well.

Kathy: Right. It’s a lot of pressure.

Tim: A lot of pressure, of course. It’s a different venue. So, it’s got to be, where I wake up one morning and say, “I have to direct this. I will have to direct an episode of Star Trek.”

Kathy: It will probably happen.

Tim: Possibly, but I have to tell you, I’m much more excited about doing my own projects. That is where the thrust is. To me, if I don’t get a chance to direct one of those, I’d almost rather enjoy going there, learning the lines, doing the part and then going home. I’m sure they would only allow me to direct an episode that I was only in a little bit, a second or two. But, I still have to be in the thing, somewhere. So I’d have to be directing and in it as an actor as well. That is two hats to wear at some point and time, which is very difficult. It would really be interesting to see how that occurs. It is a challenge, which I do enjoy. But, I would definitely prefer the challenge of directing something of my own, or something I was producing with someone else, that stands by itself.

Kathy: I can hardly wait to see what you direct. Especially because you have all that Star Trek experience you enjoy. The science fiction, all those little things mean something, all that technical stuff you’ve absorbed, and it comes out.

Tim: It would mean a great deal! Your whole vision stands on what you do with the camera. You’ve got to get whatever it is in your head on the film and make it look like it makes sense. You have to tell the story. With Star Trek, there’s certain things they do, they just do. There are certain ways they shoot things, that you have to know how to do. If you’ve got opticals, if you’ve got beam-ins, if you’ve got beam-outs, if you’ve got camera lock-downs, things like that. There are always things you have to do. Yes, I would enjoy it, that would be very interesting to see.

Kathy: Well, Paramount has the finest equipment and special effects. I know people in this business who make movies, and they go right to Paramount to use their stuff, all their special effects, their black holes. The always end up there.

Tim: Absolutely!

Kathy: Fans are interested in your character and that Pon Farr ritual. If you had to pick an actress on there now, which one would you pick?

Tim: For Pon Farr? The character already has a wife and family.

Kathy: Oh! Okay.

Tim: Yeah, he’s got a family, he’s already gone through Pon Farr. The only purpose of Pon Farr is to pick a mate.

Kathy: So, you don’t have to Pon Farr again? A lot of people are wondering about that ritual, I see it on the PC Bulletin Boards.

Tim: Shouldn’t have to do it again. To the best of my knowledge, unless I’m mistaken, even if there was a cycle, we don’t really know where the cycle falls at the beginning of Voyager. He could have just gone through that. But I think it wouldn’t make any sense for him to go through with Pon Farr if he’s already taken a mate because all you’re going to do in Pon Farr is go back to the home planet and take a mate.

Kathy: You couldn’t do that, unless you’ve gone back home.

Tim: I believe that is the point. Spock was compelled to go back to his home planet. If I recall in that story, they had to take a diversion from their course to go back to his home planet. They were on course for somewhere else. They had to go to Vulcan in order to stop him from going over the edge.

Kathy: Yes, they have that burning thing inside, that they have to get there, they won’t eat.

Tim: They won’t eat, they get agitated, they’re irritated, they starve themselves. And they have to go back. Spock had to go through the ritual, make the selection. Once a selection is done, what would they do? They’d be doing that every seven years. And then they’d have several wives, several families. I don’t think that’s the case, I think it’s only once. I believe the only reference may be that particular episode. I don’t remember all the words, but it may be in the dialogue of that episode. They are airing the Original Series in sequence now, after Voyager on Monday nights herein California.

Kathy: Only Voyager is on Monday nights on the East Coast. I heard they added new very strong color to the Original Series.

Tim: Yes, I believe that episode will eventually be on. I think you’ll have to refer to the original Pon Farr.

Kathy: I remember when Spock went onto the Planet Vulcan with a woman, they fought over her.

Tim: The one where he had to kill Kirk. Yes, I believe after he thought he had killed Kirk and Kirk shows up on the bridge afterwards, Spock turns around and finds out Kirk’s alive. And Spock, only for a minute slipped. He slipped out of that Vulcan veneer for a second. He grabbed Kirk by the shoulders and he said “Jim, you’re alive!” Completely un-Spock like. And then straightens up immediately.

Kathy: That’s what is so great about the Vulcan character, the emotions sneak out That was one of my questions about you. You’re pure Vulcan, right?

Tim: Yes, pure Vulcan.+

Kathy: Will we see any emotions?

Tim: I think the only reason you would see them… like the episode with the captain, we pushed the limits of what this Vulcan character Tuvok might be like. I’m not sure if this episode is aired yet, there’s a line where he tells Chakotay in the mss hall not to mistake composure for ease.

Kathy: That’s paradoxical.

Tim: Yeah, because he says that how Vulcans behave is not an easy thing. It is very difficult to maintain composure. It is not easy to do that. We are controlling emotions constantly. It is a constant discipline. It is a constant vigil, because Vulcans were more violent, more aggressive and more apt to act on their emotions than human beings are.

Kathy: Do you remember when Kirk and Spock jumped through a time tunnel and Spock mated with a woman in the ice age? And Spock started breaking down, his emotions.

Tim: Right. He started to break down, because he went back in time. Back to a more primitive time. So their discipline, their emotions are always there, they are just not shown. Vulcans are not allowed to show them. People make that mistake and think they don’t have emotions. That would be a machine. That would be Data, basically, who did not have the emotional capacity.

Kathy: So, they’re buried deep, but might come out.

Tim: Very deep in there, but it’s definitely there. Spock was very much Vulcan. He had the ability to mind-meld, he had the ability to use the neck pinch. He had exceptional strength.

Kathy: Even with the whale, my favorite.

Tim: Yes, and my guess is he was more Vulcan than he was human. Probably the Vulcan genes were stronger. That’s my guess at what happened. We don’t know the percentage of Human he was. But all he really had to do was choose what he wanted to be. He did have to choose if he wanted to be Vulcan. Let me make this point. If you were living in a society where you were the only one that is different, what are you going to do?

Kathy: I guess you have to conform to society.

Tim: Not only would you have to conform, but you would have to be compelled to conform. Because, what are you going to do at school with the other kids when you’re growing up?

Kathy: You’ll get laughed at.

Tim: They’re going to ostracize you.

Kathy: Like when Data made a daughter. He made a daughter named Lal and she got laughed at.

Tim: Yes, so the individual who’s laughed at will be even more compelled to make a choice to fit in. They’re going to go over the top.

Kathy: To compensate, and be stronger.

Tim: You can imagine he would be very much Vulcan. In my case, it’s obviously genetic, so I don’t have to worry about it. But in that essence the episode with the captain for example, Tuvok makes a sacrifice for her. But you never thought it was an emotional act. It was simply his choice, that is based on the relationship he has with the captain. He wouldn’t have done it for someone else.

Kathy: It’s a great relationship, and comes off very well.

Tim: And it pushes the envelope of what might make him a little different than Nimoy’s character. I personally don’t think he should have made the sacrifice on one hand. On the other hand, because of their relationship, I understand the sacrifice.

Kathy: Yeah, it was stronger, he had to weigh the two things.

Tim: The two things, it really walks a fine line. If I had my druthers, I probably would not have done it. There are two sides to that, but perhaps the scales would have tipped in the favor of having done it.

Kathy: As far as your quarters, do you think they’ll ever show them? What do you think you’ll have in there specifically? I mean physically. Do you think you’ll have a guitar, since you play the guitar, do you think they’ll bring that in to it a little bit?

Tim: I think by choice I would rather not go with music. Maybe because it’s already been established before. Music was something Spock had already done. Tuvok does enjoy reading. We may go with some type of library. Perhaps archery may be one of the things.

Kathy: Do you think an animal might be in there?

Tim: No, I think more of sculptures, that’s been something I’ve been toying with.

Kathy: Or like Data, art painting?

Tim: Yes, sculpture, and/or horticulture. I like plants.

Kathy: That would be a nice touch.

Tim: I think it would be. I’m very much into and love natural sciences. And I think that would be interesting. In terms of nature, having a bit of a plant life, sort of a geneticist, breeding plants. That’s something I eventually wanted to do as well.

Kathy: That’s good, because you could put your own ideas into that, too.

Tim: I told them I liked archery.

Kathy: But do you know how to do that?

Tim: Nope. Well, I’ve done it. But I’ll learn.

Kathy: That’s the fun part, learning it.

Tim: Sure, so we’ll eventually see his quarters. I think it will be somewhat Spartan, I mean except for the plants, perhaps. There won’t be anything in there which would be un-Vulcan like, of course.

Kathy: I can hardly wait to see his quarters.

Part III

Kathy: Tim, do you believer in UFOs?

Tim: I believe there is some evidence that there have been craft, unidentified craft, or craft that are not of a terrestrial nature. They have made their appearances in some places and to certain individuals on this planet. Yes, but I think only a small percentage of those (sightings) that are legitimate. I think a lot of them are probably not.

Kathy: If there was just one that’s legitimate…?

Tim: If there’s only one percent of one million, then that one percent would have to be verified and would make an impact. So I believe there is definitely a possibility. Now whether these craft are inter-dimensional or extraterrestrial, I really don’t know.

Kathy: They could even be Earth’s future time travelers coming back to this time and who are now aliens to us.

Tim: I think that inter-dimensional travel may very well be a possibility for them. There is certainly some degree of evidence they do exist. The problem is that “The Establishment” is not yet convinced they exist. Or they have not yet admitted that they exist.

Kathy: Or they don’t think we’re ready to know they exist.

Tim: Yes, it could be that. People confuse UFOs with men from Mars. The Government’s Blue Book Project admitted that UFOs do exist. They admitted the existence of unidentified flying objects. They also said they do not feel they are a threat to national security. Now, you can’t say there’s no threat to national security if it doesn’t exist. They just don’t know WHAT they are! They are unidentified.

Kathy: I think they know a lot more than they’re telling us.

Tim: Possibly and probably so, but what they have divulged is a great deal to me. To even admit there’s something unidentified.

Kathy: But I think they didn’t really want to, it’s just that there are too many people out there trying to get The Blue Book.

Tim: Sure. The Blue Book was set up by them and they did investigate a great deal if stories. And their conclusions were, they didn’t say they didn’t exist. They said that they existed. So now the question is about allowing the general public to witness and to see and to get actual information on the actual evidence, the physical evidence that may be in their possession or that may be available to us.

Kathy: Like at Roswell. That was evidence.

Tim: Yes, there was physical evidence they apparently had in their possession. But the question now is, where is it and hwy is it not being divulged? That’s the problem. If you look at the new reports, the news doesn’t take it seriously. To them O.J. is a far bigger story than the possibility of life on other planets or other dimensions, which would basically be the greatest story in the history of mankind.

Kathy: Absolutely!

Tim: But why is it that our own media, the established media doesn’t cover it? I’m not talking about private groups and documentaries, or whatever. I’m talking about Ted Koppel, and the rest of them. I’m talking about Sixty Minutes. I’m talking about Dan Rather. The people in this country are not going to sit up in their chairs, and quit eating their potato chips for five minutes, to figure out what’s going on unless they see it on those shows, and they are seriously discussing it, not making fun of it. Until that occurs I don’t think it’s going to be taken seriously. It’s just going to be some back-page sort of thing. And I believe in it as much as anybody else. I’m looking at everything as Spock would look at it, or as Tuvok would look at it.

Kathy: Evidence?

Tim: Evidence. Hard, cold, absolute evidence. You cannot always take people’s word. You have to go with what you have. That way, there is no dispute. You’ve got to have evidence. It’s fascinating to wonder about, but if you have an incident that occurred, where is the evidence?

Kathy: They say the government has it. If you’ve seen The X-Files, they’ve showed they do have the evidence but it’s hidden, classified.

Tim: We can’t use The X-Files as a source of information; it’s a fictional story. (So are) the documentaries we’ve seen thus far. In a documentary, I would prefer to see one with both sides represented. Not represented by just one side. We’ve got the facts, we’ve got information, it’s undeniable.

Kathy: The government could have more scientists studying it.

Tim: They should be very serious (about it) but we don’t know what the motivations are for the powers that be. But even the media, who to some degree have a great deal of power, do not take it seriously at this point. Given the potential repercussions of the verification and validation of these things, I do not understand why they do not publish more information.

Kathy: The media are afraid to say something.

Tim: They’re only afraid because the establishment has not said this is something that is important, or they do not feel the evidence is showing up to warrant them saying this is true. There is a great deal of publicity about it now, there’s a lot more shows, a lot more documentary things on it, a lot more photographic evidence. But it’s a ground swell, and I don’t know if that ground swell is because of the actual incidents or because of the popularity of the subject matter. There are different ways of looking at it. I hate to take any kind of cynical look at it, but you really have to.

Kathy: Yes, you have to be like that if you want to know the truth.

Tim: If somebody that you know personally comes to you and they tell you they had a UFO experience last night, you’re going to look at them in a different light. You’re going to want to know all the details, and you’re going to want to put that thing together in your head.

Kathy: Well, look at President Carter, he admitted seeing it. Other prominent people also.

Tim: Yes, there’s been a lot of people. There’s a Japanese pilot who’s seen that thing over the Pacific and lost his job suddenly.

Kathy: That’s the thing. You get harassed or laughed at. And of course, if you have a big position, you’re in jeopardy.

Tim: This is my point. If you’re in a prominent position and you say you’ve seen something that wasn’t of this Earth… but if you just say it was unidentified and weird looking then you’re fine. If you make any reference that it’s a spaceship, they’re not going to give you any respect anymore. I’m not sure why that is exactly, except that you’re not talking to people who understand anything other than “grow up, get a job, pay your taxes and don’t do anything else outside of it.” That is the doctrine of the day.

Kathy: But creative people like you and me look at the possibilities of other things.

Tim: There’s got to be other things, many sorts of things.

Kathy: It’s interesting to talk to someone who thinks about UFOs as a possibility.

Tim: Yes, I study it and listen to all the stories. Some might be real, some might not. I’m really interested to see just what goes on in the next ten years.

Kathy: Yes, Arthur C. Clarke said he thinks in the next twenty years that we will definitely know whether we’re alone or not.

Tim: Oh, I think so. And/or someone is going to admit we’re not alone.

Kathy: Maybe they’ll even show us where the black holes are, maybe there’s one form Earth that goes right through to other galaxies.

Tim: I have a feeling it would probably be a lot farther away from Earth because black holes have such gravitational pull.

Kathy: There may possibly be time folds and inter-dimensional tunnels.

Tim: Well, they might be able to do that. If it was physically possible to bend time and space, they would probably do that. But, I have a feeling they would avoid sharing that kind of technology with us. We’re not quite on the ball yet in terms of those that have that power, and would yield to the power.

Kathy: And I think some of society is too violent right now.

Tim: Yes, we are still very much based on our emotions, and those virtues and emotions of the people who have the power. Power that is way too intoxicating for people to be able to handle it with any kind of respect. You’re always going to have somebody’s government overriding and overseeing whatever scientists are doing. No, it would not be a good thing at this point of time.

Kathy: You think it’s too early, probably.

Tim: I think it’s too early. It’s like handling a loaded gun to a chimpanzee, and standing around to see what he does with it.

Kathy: In a way we’re like that Vulcan stage when they were still wild.

Tim: Yes, barbaric. A little too much potential for problems, for misuse of power. So I don’t know if they would share that kind of technology with us. To me, it is no different than a scientist going out into the wild and filming a waterhole under cover to document the behavior of an animal. Very much under cover. How else would you study a species? Can you imagine, if you were to go to another planet as a scientist to study another civilization, another species, another race, another world? What would be more interesting: to see it incognito or to step in (and interact)? You would always want to do that but if a culture was too primitive to understand who you are and what you’re all about, and be able to comprehend your technology, you would not be able to do that. If you marched in you would change everything from that point in time.